How Should an AA130's Fire Look at Full Burn?

 
Mikeeg02
Member
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat. Mar. 09, 2013 7:28 am
Location: Milroy, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Alaska Kodiak Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Pea

Post by Mikeeg02 » Sun. Nov. 16, 2014 12:45 pm

Ah I gotcha now. I hadnt realized you had a gear reduction motor that replaced the belt to gear drive assembly, I thought you just got a second motor with a pulley to drive the belt to gear motor. Should make for a much cleaner installation, the way youve done it. I will have to shop around for one. As much fly ash as I get near my ash bin, Im thinking that letting the auger spin only when needed could be a big help.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Sun. Nov. 16, 2014 1:49 pm

There was a member that PM'd me for this same motor info. He says his gearbox is sounding worse and worse lately and this will be a good solution for his case as well. :)

Although, I did just shelve a perfectly good gearbox. :roll:

 
Mikeeg02
Member
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat. Mar. 09, 2013 7:28 am
Location: Milroy, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Alaska Kodiak Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Pea

Post by Mikeeg02 » Wed. Nov. 19, 2014 7:54 am

Im a little ashamed to admit this, but I think upon re-assembly of the AA, I made a terrible mistake. I cant find anything in the manual about it either, but from more searching Ive determined (as Im sure most of you are already well aware) that the outer diameter of the cyclone funnel needs to be sealed. :oops: :oops: :roll:

Background story.

When I tore apart the AA to clean it up, and paint it I took it 100% apart, as I bought it used and in pieces. I wanted to verify that everything was in order. When I removed the bolt from the cyclone, it came right out, and there was nothing to make me think there was ever a gasket there. Since I didnt see anything in the manual, I just re installed it. With about 1/4 of the outer diameter having an 1/16-1/8 opening from the AA. I believe the extra hot gas re-circulation was causing some of my elevated ashing temperature and from what I understand, part of my unburnt coal issue. Time to relearn the ashing temperature again!

Last nights ashing temperature was about 170 according to the PID, and at that temperature it would maintain the house over night at 14* ambient, and 73 degrees inside. Boiler was running good, and keeping up for a change. I noticed when I shut the AA off momentarily the temperature dropped 15+ degrees, probably within 30 seconds. This made me really start to wonder, and started the searching again. We shall see what the results are in the next few days.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Wed. Nov. 19, 2014 8:30 am

We both have same PID, my cone is high temp silicone sealed and what I see at shut down is temp rise.
Fan no longer moving air, fresh burning/burnt coals exposed and proximity of sensor to hot water vessel.

From our earlier conversations some things didn't sound quite right with your AA's perfomance.


 
Mikeeg02
Member
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat. Mar. 09, 2013 7:28 am
Location: Milroy, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Alaska Kodiak Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Pea

Post by Mikeeg02 » Wed. Nov. 19, 2014 9:02 am

That's kind of what I was expecting to see myself. Temperature rise on fan shut down. When it cooled, I got suspicious and started replaying everything I could and did. Did some more forum searching for cyclone gasket and saw some others with similar experiences as I had. The AA has been back up and running for an hour now and the temperature at the Anthrastat is at 117. I think before I leave I'll make sure it stops ashing around130 and see where that leaves me. Other then feeling special. Fire seems to be burning extremely well. And anyone with an AA should have one of several of those PIDs! I think I'm going to order an additional one to monitor stack temps, and still keep a spare. These devices seem pretty nice! And within an hour of owning one seems to have helped me tremendously!

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Wed. Nov. 19, 2014 9:58 am

These PID's are amazing...even if only for temp. read out. they are worth the money.
Add in the other possibilties and you'd be crazy not to own one. ;)

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Wed. Nov. 19, 2014 11:52 am

I see a rapid temperature rise on the ash grate of my AHS Coal Gun as soon as the fan shuts off.

 
User avatar
Townsend
Member
Posts: 573
Joined: Tue. Nov. 21, 2006 7:38 pm
Location: Connecticut
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & Harman Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Pea / Nut

Post by Townsend » Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 9:37 am

Wow!!! I just noticed this thread. Awesome job McGiever!!! Holy smokes, that direct motor is a great idea. I got so excited I really skipped over the PID info and I'll go back and reread this thread. I want to convert my 260 to this setup. Fantastic!

Thank you Axeman and AHS owners who posted. Great info.


 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 11:10 am

McGiever, what are you using to control the variable speed fan motor? What speeds do you run it at?

I would like to learn more about these temperature controllers and the different sensors. These seem very inexpensive compared to an aquastat. I will start a new thread for discussion of the controllers and other uses for them.

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 11:12 am

In much of this is see the evolution of an Axeman Anderson into an AHS Coal Gun. Or perhaps more appropriately, a merger of the best ideas from both designs.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 10:15 pm

Mikeeg02 wrote:
McGiever wrote: Can't argue with success. :)

But, it's a head scratcher to me, as to how the Anthrastat senses 140* with hot coals never showing below viewing port.
Heck, the proximity of the probe picks up near to vessel temps after the fan cycle stops.

Which brings up a large variable that bears mentioning, just where precisely does the sensing probe get mounted to match the recommended readings that we all see being discussed or written?
I know on the AA they have them on the side below the auger, and the probe goes inside above the grate, obviously. I always assumed probe reacted to radiant heat put off from the exposed ash column, and nothing to do with vessel temps.
With the AHS they enter from the front below the vessel into the grate area...never seen inside how close to ash column??? Seems it would require a rather long probe from my thinking???

Anybody have any pictures for understanding and comparison?
Where did you mount yours? I was thinking of starting by tying it to the Anthrastat, centered between the sides of the grate. Then monitoring temperatures for a bit to determine desired temp. It would be nice to see where an AHS is, if they use the same style component.
Notice thin wire going to T/C position on AHS Coal Gun:
Fan End with Probe.JPG
.JPG | 69.1KB | Fan End with Probe.JPG

 
Mikeeg02
Member
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat. Mar. 09, 2013 7:28 am
Location: Milroy, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Alaska Kodiak Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Pea

Post by Mikeeg02 » Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 10:27 pm

Looks like it goes in just below the fan assembly? I wonder what it looks like from the inside. Mine is centered over the ash grate currently, hanging on the Anthrastat. I may try to move it a little closer to the coal tube.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Sun. Nov. 23, 2014 10:00 pm

Rob R. wrote:McGiever, what are you using to control the variable speed fan motor? What speeds do you run it at?
Here is what I use:
http://www.lenzeamericas.com/cgi-bin/site.pl?scf~r

Still experimenting with speeds.
I do see big differences in requirements in fan speed for different firing patterns. "Set-it and Forget-it" is a little *sloppy*, if you come to recognize what the difference can be. :)

The feature of the drive that I want to tap into is to be able to have a pilot device send a reference signal to adjust the fan speed for slight variations due to changing outdoor temps or for bringing a long standby fire back to life with a better/different fan speed.

Post Reply

Return to “Stoker Coal Boilers Using Anthracite (Hydronic & Steam)”