AHS S130 Coalgun- Puffbacks & Explosions

When ever there is a problen, why must it be a situation where only the squeaky wheel will be the only one that ever get the grease...so sad.

COME ON, AHS, you know exactly how many of these troublesome units are out there. don't make a game of this.

greenftechn wrote:

No offense there but im not looking to hear some news...im looking for the ahs rep to come out of hiding and tell me why my update kit is a month in the making

I was completely unaware you were waiting! Darren Bricker is handling these. His email is [email protected] Mine shows below.

Emailing or calling will get more prompt action, even when we drop the ball. That said, I'll put in the order, and follow up with Darren.

Ive emailed darren....

I was having problems with puff backs at least once a day when I first started my S130. I called AHS and talked to Mike G., He said the new ash temp (sv) is 115, NOT 120 as listed in the S130 manual and to set hysteresis to 1. So far so good, its been about 10 days and no puff backs! My fire is burning higher so I can see hot coals through the sight tube. I also used high temp caulking to seal up my flue pipe joints.

I would check on the timer modification kit. I have not had even a burp from my boiler since installed last year! The difference in performance has been night and day with no Puff backs or wasted coal.

macdabs wrote:I would check on the timer modification kit. I have not had even a burp from my boiler since installed last year! The difference in performance has been night and day with no Puff backs or wasted coal.

The new owners put this issue to rest with their ashing timer modification kit. AHS Coal Gun boilers made pre roughly 2011 that utilized chain driven ashing did not have this issue all that often to begin with. The issue began to be a major problem only when the previous owners eliminated the chain driven ashing. The new owners did not to my knowledge revert back to the pre roughly 2011 chain driven ashing in the current design, but rather retained the previous owners chain eliminating design and fixed it with the timer, as they agreed that the modified design with no chain offered better longevity than the chain driven ashing method. The ashing timer modification is offered to fix any non chain driven ashing boilers that are experiencing puff backs (which likely includes all of them made post roughly 2010 by the previous owner). I hope an AHS employee jumps in here to correct any errors I may have made in this my personal assessment of the situation. I have no affiliation with AHS.

Uh oh, are you saying my hybrid AA130 with electric motor and chain drive will wear out the chain? Don't think I have to worry about it in my lifetime.

cabinover wrote:Uh oh, are you saying my hybrid AA130 with electric motor and chain drive will wear out the chain? Don't think I have to worry about it in my lifetime.

I'm surprized at how many AA owners are going the AHS route and ashing via a chain driven motor instead of the twisted belt. My AHS has the ashing via chain drive also. I have a spare chain on the standby. I probably should have a spare ashing motor on the shelf also. But I'm also not overly concerned about it.

The design approach between the two companies is completely different. AHS is a design that many think simplifies the process, however I can assure you that AA has then's of thousands of users who would not change if the process were free. The twisted belt gearbox style units work just fine; and I work on dozens of them. Just because folks can't get their heads around the process, does not mean it is flawed.

KISS still works for me, and since there aren't 55 pages of AA bitches, I know AA will be here until the coal runs out.......probably in about 398 years. The AHS gear motor could power the Cog Railway, so before you have a heart attack racing off to get two spares and 3 chains, sit back, take a deep breath and relax. I hate to even get into this conversation, because it goes nowhere.
ALL the equipment works well, and the puff back can be duplicated on most any style of boiler if you create the proper scenario. Sooooooooooo.......bear season is on in PA, Deer Hunting around VT and here.......find something else to worry your minds over.

lsayre wrote: AHS Coal Gun boilers made pre roughly 2011 that utilized chain driven ashing did not have this issue all that often to begin with.

I have a 2007 built model with chain drive and I had long term problems with puff backs. It was only after I learned of the importance of fire height and continued to adjust the ashing temperature DOWN was I able to solve the problem. I have been running with the SV at 108 the past 3 years without problems.

lsayre wrote:

macdabs wrote:I would check on the timer modification kit. I have not had even a burp from my boiler since installed last year! The difference in performance has been night and day with no Puff backs or wasted coal.

The new owners put this issue to rest with their ashing timer modification kit. AHS Coal Gun boilers made pre roughly 2011 that utilized chain driven ashing did not have this issue all that often to begin with. The issue began to be a major problem only when the previous owners eliminated the chain driven ashing. The new owners did not to my knowledge revert back to the pre roughly 2011 chain driven ashing in the current design, but rather retained the previous owners chain eliminating design and fixed it with the timer, as they agreed that the modified design with no chain offered better longevity than the chain driven ashing method. The ashing timer modification is offered to fix any non chain driven ashing boilers that are experiencing puff backs (which likely includes all of them made post roughly 2010 by the previous owner). I hope an AHS employee jumps in here to correct any errors I may have made in this my personal assessment of the situation. I have no affiliation with AHS.

Larry's analysis is correct. It is true that the roller chain has NOT been a reliability issue for MOST folks, and that it won't be. Most does not equal all. It is also the case that the manufacturing cost of the current system is significantly lower.

Bob wrote: I have been running with the SV at 108 the past 3 years without problems.

My buddy Charlie still has the occasional "boom". Today I asked what his ash temp is set at & he said 120. I suggested he try 110 (or 108). He just phoned me & asked What about the HIGH setting? His boiler is 2007 or 2008 (chain drive asher). Sooooo, I'm asking for him... he can change his SV to 110, but his "high" is at 140... what should that be set at?

Thanks.

Freddy wrote:

Bob wrote: I have been running with the SV at 108 the past 3 years without problems.

My buddy Charlie still has the occasional "boom". Today I asked what his ash temp is set at & he said 120. I suggested he try 110 (or 108). He just phoned me & asked What about the HIGH setting? His boiler is 2007 or 2008 (chain drive asher). Sooooo, I'm asking for him... he can change his SV to 110, but his "high" is at 140... what should that be set at?

Thanks.

The high setting just limits the the upper value that SV can be set so change is not really necessary. However your friend may need to change the low setting to 108 or lower if he wants to try an SV value of 108.

Bob wrote:
My buddy Charlie still has the occasional "boom". Today I asked what his ash temp is set at & he said 120. I suggested he try 110 (or 108). He just phoned me & asked What about the HIGH setting? His boiler is 2007 or 2008 (chain drive asher). Sooooo, I'm asking for him... he can change his SV to 110, but his "high" is at 140... what should that be set at?

Thanks.

As Freddy noted: "The high setting just limits the the upper value that SV can be set so change is not really necessary. However your friend may need to change the low setting to 108 or lower if he wants to try an SV value of 108."

On a 2007-08 vintage Coal Gun, the SV-L setting (Fuji controller) may be as high as 120. The controller will not look at values below the SV-L number, and an SV set below this will be invalid. See latest instructions for settings on the Fuji PX-3. (attached).

Thanks for the info! I guess it's working for him... his fire is higher than it's ever been. Time will tell for sure.

I've got to admit the length of this thread (that I started) is pretty impressive.

S130/S260 firebox fire height is your key parameter in puff back prevention. The blue ladies must be visible and dancing through the sight door; or, at least an orange glow must be present to consume (burn) all coal gas volatiles.

The firebox fire height is proportional to the SV setting; which, is a function of boiler load. If you're burning hard, the SV should be set higher, if your loafing, the SV should be set lower.

My S260 is really happy with the SV at 115 for an "average" load most of the time. When I'm running really hard, i.e. heating the pool in the summer time, I crank the SV up to 140. Further, when loafing during the summer (I burn 24/7/365) with virtually no load, I've set the SV as low as 105.

Bear in mind the SV also basically controls how much coal is burning. If the SV is set too low, you won't generate BTUs---I learned this when heating the pool. I found cranking the SV up to 140 maximized the fire bed size, and maximized my BTU output. Attempting to heat my pool with the the SV at 105 made it obvious I wasn't generating enough BTUs---cranking the SV up to 140 made a night and day difference.

As I said earlier in this thread, the current S130/S260 ashing controller is an example of an "open loop" control system. Well designed control loops are "closed loop" and update automatically in real time. Two thermocouples should be incorporated keeping the SV updated as a function of boiler load; instead of, the current design which uses only one thermocouple simply monitoring the ash temperature (PV).

Your milage will vary. Every boiler installation will be different. If volatiles accumulate a KABOOM is inevitable...