Can I Burn Bituminous Coal in A Harman TLC 2000?

 
300wsm
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Post by 300wsm » Tue. Dec. 02, 2014 6:40 pm

im new to the forum but I have been reading for a while.I live in alberta canada and I always wanted to try coal in my wood heater but was always advised not to. now I have the chance to purchase a Harman tlc2000 but don't know how well it will burn the local coal. sub bit from keephills power plant at 48 dollars a ton. I don't know of any company that sells anthracite coal in the bag around edmonton so I don't think it will be an option.With the price of firewood rising every year coal seems to be a better and cheaper option.Any guesses as to the effectiveness of this heater and coal combination? Would it be worth the money or should I stay with the old faithful wood heater? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Ps awesome site,lots of good reading.
Last edited by 300wsm on Sat. Apr. 01, 2017 7:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Changed title


 
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SheepDog68
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Post by SheepDog68 » Tue. Dec. 02, 2014 8:44 pm

Welcome to NEPA Crossroads!

Someone should know that stove and be along to answer your question before too long.

SD

 
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michaelanthony
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Post by michaelanthony » Tue. Dec. 02, 2014 9:34 pm

I don't know if you can edit your title and put tlc2000 in it and being in the bit category might throw people off a little.

 
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Post by rberq » Tue. Dec. 02, 2014 9:47 pm

Stay in this "Using Bituminous Coal" section and start scrolling through the topics and read whatever looks interesting.
Here's a thread I came across right away, asking somewhat the same question you have asked: Burning Bituminous Coal in an Anthracite Stove???
There's also a Search box just above the list of Topics that will let you search within the section.

Meanwhile perhaps someone will come along who can address your question directly. Sorry, I can't be much help with bituminous .... don't know if it is even for sale at this end of the continent. :)

 
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Post by franco b » Tue. Dec. 02, 2014 9:48 pm

The Harman is designed for anthracite. That nice window will be black in twenty minutes. Speak to the people selling the coal as to what will work best.

The problem is like burning wood where large amounts of gas is produced when heating. If you don't burn it, it produces smoke and soot. The modern wood stoves have special heated over fire air to burn that wood smoke. You need something like that with the addition of a shaking grate to get rid of the ashes. Some of the antique stoves were designed just that way to burn soft coal. I don't think you should spend a lot of money on a new stove that will be no better than an old used one. Try to speak to people that are burning that coal and better still see it being burned. If you have craigslist or something like it, check it out. Perhaps a Warm Morning stove which many use to burn bit coal.

 
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Post by McGiever » Tue. Dec. 02, 2014 9:50 pm

Alberta's Clean Coal

Coal is a combustible sedimentary rock with greater than 50 per cent organic matter. Coal occurs in many formations across central and southern Alberta, with lower energy-content coals in the plains region, shifting to higher-energy-content coals in the mountain region.

Alberta's coal consists primarily of bituminous and sub-bituminous forms. Coal mined in Alberta is generally low in sulphur and therefore burns relatively cleanly compared to many coals mined in other parts of the world.

Alberta’s total marketable coal production in 2010 was 35 million tons, most of which is subbituminous coal destined for mine mouth power plants.
Here are a couple links to a member in Alaska trying to burn the sub-bit coal in that model and giving up and going on to another model:
Enjoy the read :)

TLC 2000 - Controling the Burn

A New Warm Morning

 
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Post by 300wsm » Wed. Dec. 03, 2014 12:21 am

Thanks for the reply's,but still confused.How do I find out if the coal is high quality or low quality? All I can find is that the coal averages 10000 btu/lb from most alberta mines.
Kielanders do you think the tlc with bit coal is equal or better than burning wood?What did you average for burn times and was it comparable to wood?In your opinion is it worth the effort and money?


 
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Dec. 03, 2014 8:08 pm

300wsm wrote:Thanks for the reply's,but still confused.How do I find out if the coal is high quality or low quality? All I can find is that the coal averages 10000 btu/lb from most alberta mines.
Kielanders do you think the tlc with bit coal is equal or better than burning wood?What did you average for burn times and was it comparable to wood?In your opinion is it worth the effort and money?
You could try to reach *Kielanders* by way of Private Message.

 
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Post by 300wsm » Thu. Dec. 04, 2014 12:53 am

will give that a try.

 
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Post by fish guide » Sun. Dec. 07, 2014 9:24 am

Yes you can burn bituminous coal in a Harman TLC 2000 and you are going to love the stove. I have had one for 10 years now and am burning lump bitiminous in western wyoming. The TLC is actually perfectly built fpr bituminous because it has both under fire and over fire air controls and bituminous coal is like wood in the sense that it burns better with a little top air in addition to the under fire air. The glass window does'nt get any blacker than when you are burning wood. Get the biggest lumps of coal that you can fit into the top loading hatch.

 
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Post by ron138 » Sun. Jan. 25, 2015 11:06 pm

I burn bit in mine all the time, as long as you burn it hot w/full secondary air, the glass doesn't get, as mentioned above, dirtier than w/wood. I also extended the lower edge of the slots for the secondary air controls so I could completely shut it off. Once the flames are out, I shut it off and use only primary, the stove seems much more efficient like this.

 
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Post by Lars Bagman » Sun. Feb. 08, 2015 12:25 am

The Harman TLC 2000 is designed to run anthracite coal, bituminous coal, or wood, due to its adjustable secondary air controls as both ron138 and fish guide noted. But you are asking a somewhat different question when it comes to your intent to burn sub-bituminous which ranks below bituminous and above lignite. Sub-bit typically has 15 to 30% inherent moisture and a heating value ranging from 8,300 to 11,500 Btu/lb. Since you indicated your supplier quoted a heating value of 10,000 Btu/lb, that would indicate the sub-bit you have available is about in the mid range of these values, or perhaps the supplier just gave a value in the middle of the range for sub-bit.

As a bit of background, anthracite coal burns with high efficiency because it is basically carbon with very little (~5%) volatile matter, meaning for a batch charged stove its oxygen requirements don't vary much over time, from first ignition until complete combustion. Thus a stove designed for only anthracite can have a fixed orifice for secondary air control. A batch charged wood stove on the other hand has widely varying oxygen requirements, after first ignition it gives forth a large amount of volatiles, some 80% of its dry weight. Unless this huge demand for oxygen is met, much of this potential heat leaves as unburned volatile material. If the huge demand for oxygen is met, it can result in a firing rate that can over heat the stove, flue and chimney. Often a compromise is made. After the volatiles are burned off the remaining charcoal burns very much like anthracite coal. Unfortunately if a single setting for secondary air is made throughout the combustion cycle, the wood fire will be starved for oxygen during the early stages and large wasteful amounts of excess air will be present during the later combustion stages.

Bituminous coal contains volatile materials (35% +/- 10%) about midway between wood and anthracite. Its oxygen demand varies during its bulk combustion, very high at first ignition and then about the same as anthracite after the volatiles are gone and only carbon is left to combust. A single setting for secondary air will probably have a problem similar to the one outlined for wood, though not as extreme.

Sub bituminous coal has a volatile content of about 50%, thus its oxygen demand will vary greatly during the combustion cycle of a batch charged stove with problems intermediate between bituminous coal and wood.

As a final caution, sub-bits with their lower density (high internal surface area) can cause some types to be susceptible to spontaneous combustion if they are not packed densely during storage to greatly restrict free air flow. A bin with a closed semi-air tight lid (like a metal trash dumpster) or even a weighted down tarp could be used to restrict free air circulation. You might not want to store this stuff indoors or near a building you fancy as important.
Last edited by Lars Bagman on Sun. Feb. 08, 2015 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

 
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Post by blrman07 » Sun. Feb. 08, 2015 3:08 am

Lb....That was a great description on burning bit!!! Thank you for the explanation. It would seem that the question has been answered that your stove will burn the sub-bit but you cannot load it and forget it. You will have to fiddle with both the primary and the secondary air during the burn cycle. The best suggestion was to find someone who is burning it already and buy them a couple of cold ones and pick their brain. A "local" user with the right inducement will show you their setup and explain to you how to do it.

Coal burners are a weird bunch that way. A little weird but nice. Mostly. Most of the time. Usually. It depends. You get the idea.

 
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Post by rberq » Sun. Feb. 08, 2015 11:05 am

Lars Bagman wrote:You might not want to store this stuff indoors or near a building you fancy as important.
:lol: :P "Fancy as important," eh?
I'll put it in the barn loft with my wet hay.

Seriously, though, that's all very informative. I have long thought that wood stoves (and now bit. stoves) should have oxygen sensors in the flue to aid in adjustment.

Thanks for posting.

 
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Post by rockwood » Mon. Feb. 09, 2015 5:19 pm

Lars Bagman wrote:Its oxygen demand varies during its bulk combustion, very high at first ignition and then about the same as anthracite after the volatiles are gone and only carbon is left to combust. A single setting for secondary air will probably have a problem similar to the one outlined for wood, though not as extreme.
This is one reason stokers are so much better compared to hand firing. All of the issues you mention when burning soft coals are virtually eliminated by the use of a mechanical stoker. This is because relatively small amounts of coal are burned with adequate air resulting in highly efficient combustion.
Hand firing soft coal can never match the efficiency and consistent BTU output of a well tuned mechanical stoker...Add the convenience, automation, and easy tending afforded by a stoker, you really are on easy street ;)
When I hear of people struggling with hand firing soft coal, I just want to say...'find a stoker and never look back' :)


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