Refractory VS. Cast Fire Pot/Fire Box

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ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Sat. Mar. 21, 2015 3:41 am

My Crane 404 has a cast iron fire box and there was some discussion on the Crane stove section how the users of a 44 or 88 have very fine ash that is like flour. They have a refractory fire pot can this be the difference? Could the cast fire box be stealing too much heat from the coal bed and not burn the coal completely? On the Crane stove section it has been mentioned that if continually running a 404 hard the fire box will get damaged and I have certainly been running mine very hard right now settled in with 650 stove top 180 on pipe and 540 internal stack and keep thinking heatalator that is a lot of BTU going up and away doing nothing to heat my house. The skin telp of the stack is a useless number in my mind other than for reference..

If I don't get the cash this summer to build a stove that has all the features important to me this might be a fall back position for a couple of hundred bucks. I need to get the coal use down to 2 1/2 tons or less I have gone through that much already and the stove is running right now at 600 , just loaded 25 more ponds and time to clear the grates now that it is burning well.

Thoughts welcome as always!
Dave

 
ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Sat. Mar. 21, 2015 4:48 am

OK ran the calcs and assuming a 1 inch diameter tube and easy to see there are 10 of them the unit claims to be 10.7 deep wit some of that used for the fan so comes out around 3k btu/hr radiant and with the fan guessing 6 to 10k BTU rather than a factory claim of 30k that has to be take it to the graveyard temps. In terms of coal it is a savings of 1 to 1.5 tons so easily pays for itself in less than one season plus less stove tending that is always welcome. I see it as a way to add radiated area ro a stove that can not reach 10 to 1 at best right now and just a guess and as low as 6 or 8 would not surprise me.

I will grant it will use some electricity and expensive where I am so if even a break even first year still less stove tending less ashes etc.

 
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Post by ddahlgren » Sat. Mar. 21, 2015 8:57 pm

No one?

 
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SWPaDon
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Post by SWPaDon » Sat. Mar. 21, 2015 9:49 pm

I can't answer all of your questions (especially about anthracite), but I can tell you that if I run my furnace (it has firebrick) low and slow, my ash is super fine, like a powder. The harder I fire, the larger pieces of ash I get.

From what I've seen stated on the forum, the same results come from anthracite coal also. But It seems to me that almost all of the 'fine ash' comments were coming from 'lined' firepots, and they were running low and slow also.

Hope this helps,

Don


 
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blrman07
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Post by blrman07 » Sun. Mar. 22, 2015 5:25 am

I assume your talking about installing a heat reclaimer in your pipe to the chimney. Here is a write up or a blast from the past.

Heat Reclaimer

 
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Post by ddahlgren » Sun. Mar. 22, 2015 7:14 am

blrman07 wrote:I assume your talking about installing a heat reclaimer in your pipe to the chimney. Here is a write up or a blast from the past.

Heat Reclaimer
Thanks for the link Larry,so my suspicions confirmed there is a lot of heat to be had on the cheap. I just looked stove top 500 stack surface 180 but stack internal temp is 450. pulling 250 degrees out would cut my coal consumption a solid 35%. so 350 of more per year. paid for in under 1 year though electricity cost might make it a 1 year pay off. Saying that It also means I tend the stove 35% less and haul coal in 35% less and yes I don't have much free me time and nice to get some of that back. I had one on an old Frankling wood stove in the mid 80's burning pallets for heat and while a lot of work it did a very good job with that and a window fan behind the stove it threw a bunch of heat and only had one small chimney fire with that old smoke dragon.

Thanks for the fire box comments Don kind of what I thought. The reason for a two change project. Add the heat reclaimer so I can burn lower and slower and get the same amount of heat and line the fire box so it will burn lower and slower well and have fine ash that the grate system in a Crane 404 does a better job clearing it. I am about used up mentally with the hands and knees poke under the grates routine to be honest.

Dave

 
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Post by franco b » Sun. Mar. 22, 2015 11:50 am

In the past readings reported between surface temps. and internal have been more like 100 degrees hotter internal. yours do not seem right. I suspect the surface temp. is higher.

Adding heat exchange will help a lot.

I am doubtful if lining the firebox will make a major difference. Your fire box is already spaced away from the stove body which tends to keep it hotter.

Poking from the top to help clear ash should be possible with an offset knife like poker as pictured. 1/8 inch thick by 3/4 inch wide.

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Post by ddahlgren » Sun. Mar. 22, 2015 1:00 pm

It just seemed to me the iron would not hold as much heat to allow burning very slow with the coal bed to continue burning. Currently on very warm days if I go below 275 to 300 game over the fire will slowly go out. No matter what I get rough coarse ash that really does not want to go through the grates and my hunch it has not burned completely. The other part is if I get too rough with the stove the fire box is the first thing to go and would be a real bummer in January. I am going to keep my eyes open for a used Magic Heat reclaimer.

I am switching the magnetic thermometers and see if the same difference between surface and internal temps on the stack pipe.


 
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Post by ddahlgren » Sun. Mar. 22, 2015 1:32 pm

Oh well so much for swapping the magnetic thermometers. The one on the stove top has a dead magnet.

 
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Post by scalabro » Sun. Mar. 22, 2015 2:31 pm

Save your time, lost development money and lost opportunity costs.

Put that money, time & effort into aquiring a Crawford 40 and be done with it.

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Mar. 22, 2015 3:11 pm

dd,we used a Magic Heat for 6 yrs on a wood stove. It reclaimed a lot of heat. But, the Schrader stove had no baffle either,so lots of heat went up the stack.The 1 nice feature of the Magic Heat was that it was the cool down point in the stack,that is where the creosote collected. To clean the creosote from the tubes ,just push & pull the rod a few times,if it got stuck with excessive creosote,we just threw crumpled paper in which went up the stack & would get the creosote burning which turned the tubes red,the rod would then move in & out easily. The Magic Heat was noisy & I would not install 1 in a coal stove exhaust.The rod slides back & forth thru a hole in the middle of the reclaimer,that hole goes into the exhaust pipe. We could see a tiny amount of ash blowing from that hole when it was running & ashes got stirred up. If ashes can blow out there, what is to prevent a small dose of CO blowing out there also ? I personally think that a heat reclaimer is a waste on a coal stove. With all the issues you seem to have with the Crane 404,i think scalabro's suggestion would be your best option. I have been & am still enjoying a very trouble free,very low level of tending with my 404. :)

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