Gentleman Janitor GJ-51??? Project

Rob R. wrote:Don, there is no need to use a stainless side arm unless your tap water is corrosive. Assuming that isn't the case, price out a copper one.

Point taken Rob, My main reason for wanting the 85KBTU stainless unit is that it just looks like it's a better design than there copper units. And on the off chance I install a pool or hot tub, I got it covered with coal heat!

-Don

Uh oh! You are talking about a heat exchanger for a hot tube or a pool. I was talking about a piece of copper inside another standing verticle next to your hot water tank. No electricity needed! Look up a side arm on ebay. You make them yourself.

I was lucky enough to talk to Danny at General Machine for quite a long time this evening. He filled my head with a LOT of stuff so before I forget it all I'm gonna just type it down here so I don't forget. This won't be in any kind of order, just a brain dump.

GJ-51 was designed in 1951. GJ-61 was designed in 1961. The pot was designed to be in the center of the boiler, mine s a little off center. My pot mounting pipe may not be the right length. Tabs on the grates are for the rotating pot and don't have to be in any order on a non-rotating pot.

feed pipes are tapered in the inlet to prevent coal crushing. They were brass, the new ones are stainless. Worms are stainless. Coupling joints are cast. Bin feed pipe is galinized. Bin worm should be 6" to 8" above the bottom of the bin.

The GJ pot was designed to burn Buckwheat coal. Buckwheat coal and coal in general is a little smaller than when this thing was designed ( possibly burn Pea coal?). He said I could try rice coal but it may not work out to well, the worm and pipe may crush it up to much.

Worm drive: There is a bushing that goes at the end of the motor mount pipe, it has a brass face, these wear out. there is another bushing that goes into the pot, used to be cast, switched to aluminum to keep form chewing up the pot. The square coupling goes through these bushings and is attached to the feed worm.

NOTE: There is an oil hole in the motor mount pipe to oil the bushing.

Gearboxes: The small gearbox is a more durable unit than the large gearbox. The larg gearbox also requires a motor with the shaft coming out both sides, one to drive the fan and one to drive the gearbox in the opposite direction. If you run with the belt loose, the small gearbox should last forever, the seals are replaceable.

The square air pipe for the pot is something that he would have to fabricate from plans. The air pipes are designed to funnel the air. When set up correctly the air shutter should be about 2.5 turns open, measured for the closed position. The fire should be just touching the top of the fire box with that setting.

I can't think of anything else now. I will add to this later.

-Don

MORE:

GJ pots with 14" 15" 16" ash rings have the same pot and burn rings. There are pot bottoms with 2 different size feed worms and 2 different air inlets, round and square. Also 2 feed pipe types, 4 bolt flange and slide in with 2 set screws.

Every 1" increase in ash ring size increases the heat output by about 10,000 BTU's.

-Don

Since I just blurted out a pile of GJ information, this seems like a good place to put the operation instruction sheet I got with the boiler. The guy I got the boiler from said this was hanging on the wall next to the boiler.
And for good measure I will re-post the 5 page manual Scott posted a couple years ago. I just learned something very interesting. Using FireFox it only takes about 4 seconds to upload photos to the forum. I have always used Explorer, that takes a few minutes to upload a photo. Also, spell check works on FireFox.

I have been using FireFox lately because it works much better with Youtube. Here is a link to my video of the GJ burning rice coal.



And another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okN8G9-fiEI&feature=youtu.be

Not the greatest quality video, and the compressor mic makes the stoker and blower sound a lot louder than they really are, but you get the idea.

-Don

My welder has been very busy with a few big jobs out of the shop for the past few weeks and has not been able to get to my boiler and base. Should be done next week, we'll see.

In the mean time, I'm working on the EFM stoker. I'm using the pot that I bought separate form the stoker because it is in better shape. I had to cut the air pipe out of the blower housing because they were completely rusted together. Lucky for me the pot came with and air pipe that was NOT rusted in.

Pot, air pipe, ash ring, motor plate and spacer. The bolts and washers are painted with silver high heat paint. I have not cleaned up the spacer yet, I don't know if I will be able to use it. Blower housing. Fan. I ground off the other ear and cleaned up that surface so there should be enough room to get the new style coupler on the motor shaft. The grates. 2 of the grates have that crack at the top form the mounting hole to the outer edge. I think this means they need to be replaced. I am going to run them for this year and have a look at them next year. Some of the grates are very rough on the bottom. I don't know if they were cast that way or this is damage??? The rope gaskets are the next mystery. In the EFM section, member "stokerman" lists all the parts of the stoker with EFM part numbers, including the gaskets. Nowhere does it say what size the rope gaskets are, only EFM part numbers.

I searched through the forum for answers and I only came up with one thread that states a coal feed problem using 1/2" rope gasket in the bottom grate to pot connection, it should be 3/8" rope. Nothing at all about what size the upper grate and ash ring gasket are.

Anybody know what size this should be??? Looks like about 1/4". I think the upper grate and the ash ring gasket are the same size? Thank you for your help,

-Don

1/4" at the top, 3/8" at the bottom.

Don't bother reinstalling the cracked plates, they will likely fail when you least want it.

I wouldn't worry about the cracks between the hole and the outer edge; I think they are pretty common. One of your pics shows a crack going the other direction. That looks like it might have resulted from some serious over-tightening. If you have spares on hand and are prepared to respond, I would expect you'd still get a lot of life out of the grates you have, but don't over-tighten whether you put in new or used ones (new ones are particularly susceptible to warping).

The rough spots on the bottoms can be smoothed with a grinder or flapdisk. IIRC they'll be up against the 3/8" gasket, so they don't need to be perfect.

Mike

Rob R. wrote:1/4" at the top, 3/8" at the bottom.

Don't bother reinstalling the cracked plates, they will likely fail when you least want it.

Nice.

Thanks for the info Rob. 1/4" for the ash ring and the upper grate. 3/8" for the bottom. Doesn't sound like normal wood stove gasket, might not find it local, we'll see.

I will at least run these grates for Sept Oct until I can get new grates.

Yesterday I received my motivation to get back to coal fired hot water, my $178 electric bill!

-Don

My thoughts are that there is never an easier time to make things right than a 75 degree day with the parts sitting on the bench. It is one thing to find a hairline crack during a cleaning and leaving everything alone, but it is another to reinstall the parts, torque them in place, and hope that they survive the first few heat cycles.

Don, I have a few low mileage plates (with zero cracks) on the shelf. We could work something out if you are interested.

I think I got my 1/4" gasket from Mcmaster Carr.

I wouldn't suggest keeping the grates if the cracks were "lower", where they probably would be a sign of fatigue or damage that could be expected to worsen materially through further use. Here, it looks highly likely that they could be addressed through proper installation.

I also gave some weight to the fact that Don is a notorious stoker-swapper who changes stokers like other people change their socks. If it were someone less likely to tear apart his equipment just for the fun of it, I might lean more towards Rob's view.

Mike

I completely agree with fixing it while it's on the bench. The current plan is to run the EFM for a few months while working on the Gentleman Janitor stoker. I think the EFM will be fine for that length of time.

Then, pull the EFM and install the GJ. At that point I can inspect the EFM.

It may turn out that the GJ won't like burning rice coal. Then I will call Mark's Supply and get a new set of grates and fix what ever else I may have screwed up.

Thank you for the kind offer Rob. I'm not sure if it's better to run a new set or replace 2 with new or used?

-Don

Pacowy wrote:I wouldn't suggest keeping the grates if the cracks were "lower", where they probably would be a sign of fatigue or damage that could be expected to worsen materially through further use. Here, it looks highly likely that they could be addressed through proper installation.

I also gave some weight to the fact that Don is a notorious stoker-swapper who changes stokers like other people change their socks. If it were someone less likely to tear apart his equipment just for the fun of it, I might lean more towards Rob's view.

Mike

You know me a little to well Mike!

I agree, if this were going into a normal person's home and they just wanted it to work for the next 20 years, I would put a new set right in. This is me and I can't seem to leave this stuff alone!

-Don

Your grates aren't all that bad. When they start getting a little dicey, they will swell up and sort of get a big curve on top. The crack on the top is pretty much what happens after a few years of service. Especially if they are run at a little higher setting than 4 teeth. They will crack on top if they are put in too tight. They do need to be snug but not cranked in until the 1/4" stove bolt breaks. Tighten them down until they barely move when struck with a rubber hammer.

Scottscoaled wrote:Your grates aren't all that bad. When they start getting a little dicey, they will swell up and sort of get a big curve on top. The crack on the top is pretty much what happens after a few years of service. Especially if they are run at a little higher setting than 4 teeth. They will crack on top if they are put in too tight. They do need to be snug but not cranked in until the 1/4" stove bolt breaks. Tighten them down until they barely move when struck with a rubber hammer.

Thanks for the tips Scott, Rob, Mike. Right now I have them as finger tight as I can get them. I would think they should only be slightly tighter than that.

I went to the hardware store today and yes the did have 1/4" and 3/8" rope gasket. I also got some new 1/4"x20 screws and nuts. I slathered the screws with hi-temp never sieze. I didn't put anything on the rope gasket.
A milk crate works well to hold it before it goes in the pot. I'm thinking of putting the GJ directly under the chimney. This is about where the pot will end up. The coal annex will be built abour 30" out from the slat doorway in the bin. Looks like the 6' worm will be to long. the other is a 4' worm, that looks like it will work nicely. The end is about 7" above the floor. There is a hole in the casting where the bottom rope gasket goes. I will be filling that with hi-temp sillicone. I think the next thing to figure out is the pot bushing. The one that is in there was covered with furnace cement, I don't know how the worm bushing got through it. Anyway, I round filed out the furnace cement and the worm bushing is very tight in the pot bushing, so tight it won't turn.

We will figure that one out next time.

-Don