Death of a Stainless Steel Liner...

 
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Keepaeyeonit
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Tue. Apr. 14, 2015 8:38 pm

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There you go Beeman I turned the pic for you.

Boy I wonder if the insulation(around the liner) was action like a pipe, did you notice any loss in the draft or any difference with the stove?
How big are the flue liners you have now? Just remember the 503 is a 6" (28 SQ IN in area) and if you start getting a lot bigger with the flue your draft could suffer and the stove won't run the same.
This was the second year since I relined with the round clay(8" round) and has worked flawlessly even in the mid 70*'s. If It were me I wouldn't use SS again thats for sure( but thats me)and as far as dropping clay down the chimney(relining) It's not hard I did mine by my self without help in 2 weekends but I added 2' to the hight too.
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I used 2 10' 1 1/4 pvc conduit and not the metal pipes like the guys in the video did.Good luck and Keep up poster on you decision. Keepaeyeonit :)

 
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nortcan
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Post by nortcan » Tue. Apr. 14, 2015 9:57 pm

:) Good to see you back on the present subject Keepaeyeonit.
How did you attache the pipes one to the other one?
Is the tile liner free in the brick chimney, I mean do the tiles can move from one side to the other one ?
What insulating material did you use around the tiles?
Thank you. From a Canadian member

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Wed. Apr. 15, 2015 1:34 am

Beeman wrote:Before switching to my Hitzer 503 about 6 years ago, I was burning wood in a fireplace insert Quadrafire stove. My chimney guys installed a SS liner about 10 years ago and all was good.
Be aware there is different grades of SS liner, neither is going to last but if you have the lower grade forget it. I recall a post a few years back where it was supposed to be the higher grade and it didn't last more than 2 years. Either a defective product or simply the wrong one.

 
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Keepaeyeonit
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Wed. Apr. 15, 2015 4:46 am

Richard S. wrote:
Beeman wrote:Before switching to my Hitzer 503 about 6 years ago, I was burning wood in a fireplace insert Quadrafire stove. My chimney guys installed a SS liner about 10 years ago and all was good.
Be aware there is different grades of SS liner, neither is going to last but if you have the lower grade forget it. I recall a post a few years back where it was supposed to be the higher grade and it didn't last more than 2 years. Either a defective product or simply the wrong one.
Good point Richard, I would be willing to bet it's 304 and not 316 or 326ti if it was installed for a wood stove.
Nortcan, I used bolts instead of hitch pins and insulation is perlite. I set the first liner in morter and just stacked the rest of them on top of each other with heat-stop morter at the joints, yes there's nothing to stop them from moving side to side but I'm not sure why they would move like that.


 
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Beeman
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Post by Beeman » Wed. Apr. 15, 2015 5:11 am

Thanks for great response and discussion. Many good thoughts to consider. Car jack idea is genius for installing new terra cotta if necessary--I will inspect condition and dimensions of my existing terra cotta. Hoping it is just fine and not too big to impair draft.

Keepaeyeonit, thanks for photos and thoughts. How did you get mortar into position to set first piece of tile? Up through bottom? Also, how did you get mud between the tiles--slap on before carefully lowering into position? [Thanks for rotating the first photo--can you do it again? How are you doing it?]

No way I am installing more SS liner. Photo shows the liner I purchased 10 years ago. I think it is of high quality, but any thoughts? I know it won't "forever" stand up to coal acids. My stove dealer does use short piece of SS liner to connect to stove outlet and extend through damper area of fireplace until true chimney begins. I don't know an alternative. Thoughts?

Brushing out SS liner after each season might be tough. I was thinking to try to brush it after first two seasons, then pull stove, inspect and replace the short piece of liner. Other ideas?
SS liner info.JPG

"Forever" is not like it used to be....

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Keepaeyeonit
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Wed. Apr. 15, 2015 7:05 am

I set the 1st round liner inside of the existing 12"sq one, I cut a piece of plywood and wedged it up against the bottom of the 12" clay then set the 8" rd one inside of it Plummed it with a small level and string line. Too access it I removed 2 bricks from the chimney right at the top of the liner so I could get my hand inside the chimney, once it was set I mixed the mud and poured it between the liners giving it light taps with a rubber hammer to remove the air pockets now I did use just regular type s morter not refractory morter to set the 1st one( that's the way the mason did it when they built the house and it wasn't a problem so I did it the same way as they did it). I let it sit for a week then I finished it, I just buttered the bottom of the Clay before I set it but my round liners have male f/male ends on them so the seal is very good and that kept them inline with each other.

I made a squeegee it fit the inside of the Clay to clean the excess morter that squeezed out, I set 2 liners then I would fill the air space with the perlite( I made a cover out of cardboard to keep the insulation from going down the clay, I made both the squeegee and the cardboard so I could hook them up to my brush rods).
I see you probably had the 316ti liner? I didn't have any luck with liners so I fixed it for the last time( I hope) If they were made out of .032 and not .006( thickness)then I'm sure they would last a hell of a lot longer.
Was your liner wrapped in insulation? I can't believe you didn't have a draft issue! If your liner wasn't wrapped with insulation then Rev Larry may have a point about your chimney being ok but the only thing with that is you won't know if it's ok or not until heating season starts and that's not the time to make repairs like that!

I use Heat-fab pipe to get to the clay, I ran it for 2 seasons without removing it and so far it's still fine. I have a rubber seal I shove down the clay until I reach the steel pipe, I use light bulb and damp-rid in the stove during the summer.
This will be the second summer the pipe will go though without removal so we will see how it holds up. Keepaeyeonit

 
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY » Wed. Apr. 15, 2015 9:29 pm

Think those 2' sections would bend around a couple corners? :shock: :funny:

I wish my chimney was that easy to fix ...

 
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Beeman
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Post by Beeman » Thu. Apr. 16, 2015 4:42 am

Keepaeyeonit, thanks for additional info. Sounds like you did a great job on your chimney. I have Dave, my stove guy, coming in May to scope out my chimney situation. Will report back when I have more info. --Beeman


 
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Post by blrman07 » Thu. Apr. 16, 2015 7:05 am

Was your liner wrapped in insulation? I can't believe you didn't have a draft issue! If your liner wasn't wrapped with insulation then Rev Larry may have a point about your chimney being ok but the only thing with that is you won't know if it's ok or not until heating season starts and that's not the time to make repairs like that!


He didn't have a draft issue more than likely because his chimney is probably alright. There was no liner left at all and he was utilizing the clay lined chimney. The liner pieces didn't even choke him down.

Not sure what your temps are doing but were still hitting mid 30's at night. That is plenty cool to clean out and test a chimney. Check it now while you can test the stove out without a liner and have all spring, summer, and fall to decide what you want to do with the chimney. IMHO clean it and test burn it with a manometer.

 
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Beeman
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Post by Beeman » Thu. Jun. 11, 2015 3:05 pm

Beeman reporting back on the decaying SS liner issue. Dave of Hillside Acres came out today and pulled the chimney liner. See photos below--the decay was extensive at the bottom of the lined liner and just above where the SS connecting pipe from stove was tied into the liner. Dave pointed out that in his experience, coal stove connected liners that wear out usually decay closer to the top of the chimney--mine was clearly at the bottom and the rest of the liner showed no signs of decay or degradation by the sulfuric acid associated with coal. Liner is estimated to be 8-9 years old.

Dave had an excellent theory about why and how my liner decayed and where it decayed. I burned wood for 3 years before switching to coal. Given that wood fires are hotter than coal fires and also given that the heat from the wood fire is hottest in the stove itself and cools as it goes up the chimney, it seems reasonable to assume that the weakest link in the chimney was where the connecting pipe attached to the bottom of the liner, i.e. 2-3 feet above the top of the stove.

Next up was the decision of how to proceed with the chimney. I have 13" X 13" square terra cotta that is in good shape. I decided to go with a short piece of heavier SS liner to connect stove up into the unlined chimney by perhaps 6 or 7 feet. The only issue I anticipate is a major change in draft. I have a tall chimney, light my stove in November, and keep it going until April. I am hoping that once draft is established with an initial wood fire, I can keep a good draft with an ongoing coal fire. Might have to open my vents more in typical operation. If I am wrong when I try out this idea next fall, I can always do something to reduce the width of the chimney--masonry modification or heavy, guaranteed SS liner, which is easy to install.

Cleaning chimney should be easier--I plan to run the 6" brush up only the short section of SS liner. Will ignore the terra cotta.

Feedback about any of this info or my plans is welcome. Thanks, Beeman

Attachments

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Connecting pipe attached to lower end of liner.

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Closeup looking at decay and looking toward connecting pipe at bottom of liner.

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Ashcat
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Post by Ashcat » Thu. Jun. 11, 2015 5:47 pm

This all sounds reasonable. I will be eager to hear how your draft is. I don't think you'll have problems.

 
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Keepaeyeonit
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Sun. Nov. 22, 2015 7:34 am

Hi Beeman, I was just wondering If your running your stove yet? and If you are how's it working? Keepaeyeonit

 
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Post by 63roundbadge » Sat. Dec. 05, 2015 10:11 am

My Security SS chimney has been in use for 29 years w/2 different stoves. Every 5 years or so I go up on the roof and flush it down into a Homer Bucket until the water is clear. Back to clean SS after that. Temp at the thimble 6 feet from stove never goes above 130.

Other steel items nearby outside have picked up corrosion/surface rust over the years. Amazing that it only happens on any horizontal steel surface, vertical surfaces unaffected.

I am however on my 4th mushroom cap.

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