Coal or Wood Boiler

 
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McGiever
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Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Fri. Jan. 29, 2016 9:59 pm

ldmill wrote:This is just my opinion only but I would much rather have a cast iron sectional boiler in very good condition
then add a stoker which will burn Bit coal than a boiler made from sheet steel that is designed to burn Anthracite coal and convert it to burn Bit coal.
Larry
Most of us here are always eager to learn new "twists" on burning ANY type coal in ANY type contraption...but I think dang few of us have ever had the exposure to the likes of what you have there. :)

I will say that Bother Coal Burner, *Stoker Don* has had the attention of many here for a good while now. :verycool: :smoke:

Not too many aspiring coal burners are going to go on a hunt around to find an old sectional hand-fire boiler, only after knowing that he has a handle on a good conversion stoker first. Then upon finding one of these old sectional beast, his hope is that it is in fair enough shape to invest in the time and effort to commit to carrying it up out of some basement, load up, haul back to his place, unload it, clean it all up before toting it in and down into his basement so he can then go about the careful reassembly of all these pieces and parts, then commence to getting it all plumbed in so as to finally then finagle into place a scarce to find and appropriately sized conversion stoker unit. Whew!

Isn't a bad choice when choices are few. ;)

 
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joynerdustin
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Joined: Fri. Jan. 22, 2016 5:57 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Earl Economy
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous Stove Coal hand picked 200' Underground

Post by joynerdustin » Fri. Jan. 29, 2016 11:18 pm

Thanks for all of the insight gentlemen! There are very few people around who have experience in this type of thing. This Crane Boiler I'm looking at can be had for very little cost, next to nothing really. I would love to just buy a complete factory made Anthracite Stoker system but my geographical location makes the cost of Anthracite less cost effective than heating with Propane (at the moment propane 1.08$ a gallon. Ant coal 300.00$ a ton at Tractor Supply Co)
Bit coal can be had for 90.00$ a Ton locally. What is the Cost of a new 150000 BTU Conversion Bit Stoker?

 
ldmill
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Joined: Sat. Aug. 18, 2012 9:21 pm
Location: WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor with a Motor Stokor
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous Stoker / 1-1/2" X 1/4"
Other Heating: Geothermal Heat Pump

Post by ldmill » Fri. Jan. 29, 2016 11:40 pm

You can check the following link: willburt.com/products/coal-stokers/

This is the only manufacturer I am aware of for a new bit coal stoker. They have been bought by another company
but the above link will get you there.

You possibly could find a used Willburt or Iron Fireman in good condition that are excellent stokers. If you contact member "Pacowy"
he usually has some conversion stokers available or could possibly locate one for you.

Larry

 
Pacowy
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Location: Dalton, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Post by Pacowy » Sat. Jan. 30, 2016 1:36 pm

McGiever wrote:Not too many aspiring coal burners are going to go on a hunt around to find an old sectional hand-fire boiler, only after knowing that he has a handle on a good conversion stoker first. Then upon finding one of these old sectional beast, his hope is that it is in fair enough shape to invest in the time and effort to commit to carrying it up out of some basement, load up, haul back to his place, unload it, clean it all up before toting it in and down into his basement so he can then go about the careful reassembly of all these pieces and parts, then commence to getting it all plumbed in so as to finally then finagle into place a scarce to find and appropriately sized conversion stoker unit.
You seem to have focused on the challenges without mentioning the motivations. Cast iron has heat transfer efficiency advantages relative to other materials. Likewise, the watertube designs of some of the older sectional boilers offer efficiency advantages relative to some/many current products. I had a dealer with 40 years of heating equipment experience look at the 1950's cast iron sectional boiler in our house when we bought it and his advice was to keep it.

Conversion stokers were designed to be used in such applications, and offer many performance and convenience advantages relative to whatever might be done to improvise using current stoker products. I'm not aware of any current stoker boilers that would be a reasonable bet to outperform the cast iron boiler/conversion stoker combination I am using.

Mike


 
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Scottscoaled
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Location: Malta N.Y.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup

Post by Scottscoaled » Sat. Jan. 30, 2016 3:18 pm

I agree with Mike as to the cast boilers being quite a bit more efficient. They have massive transfer area.

 
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europachris
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Post by europachris » Sat. Jan. 30, 2016 4:03 pm

joynerdustin wrote:Thanks for all of the insight gentlemen! There are very few people around who have experience in this type of thing. This Crane Boiler I'm looking at can be had for very little cost, next to nothing really. I would love to just buy a complete factory made Anthracite Stoker system but my geographical location makes the cost of Anthracite less cost effective than heating with Propane (at the moment propane 1.08$ a gallon. Ant coal 300.00$ a ton at Tractor Supply Co)
Bit coal can be had for 90.00$ a Ton locally. What is the Cost of a new 150000 BTU Conversion Bit Stoker?
If you've not found it yet, take a look at this: EFM = Electric Fireman (New Project Alert) I took an EFM 350 boiler and built a new base for it to convert it for use with an Iron Fireman bituminous conversion stoker that I rebuilt. As of 5 or 6 years ago, a new Wilburt S30 stoker (the current equivalent of the old Iron Fireman) ran about $4500. You still need a boiler, of course, and the Burnham 4N-63A was recommended. This is the smallest of the commercial firebox boiler line, inherited from the old Kewanee Type R boilers. The boiler was quoted anywhere from $7500 to $12K to me. It is still a BIG boiler - 324K BTU gross output - but being a multi-pass firetube design, it will be very efficient. Needless to say, it was completely outside of my budget to go with new equipment. Luckily, another forum member here, Greg Long (LsFarm) found a stoker and boiler top for me that were solid (if cosmetically challenged) for a great deal. I spent several months stripping paint and rust, fabricating some new parts, welding a base and painting everything. Finally, a load of Knight Hawk coal was picked up and we were off and running.

I would have much preferred to have been able to find an old hand-fed coal boiler since they were what the stokers were designed for. Pull out the grates, remove the ashpit door, stick the stoker in the hole and brick/cement everything in place - done. I knew there were boilers out there yet, but chances of me coming across one were slim since I have no connections with scrappers, contractors, or other people that would know where any might be found. The other risk (as already mentioned) is getting a boiler with a decent amount of life left in it, not cracked or leaking.

But, for burning the coal we have, a stoker is very highly recommended. I grew up in S. Indiana, and I "fondly" remember my dad trying some of the neighbor's coal (he was a foreman at one of the local mines) in our add-on wood/coal furnace. Burning it was something akin to a cross between a tire fire and a Union Pacific "Big Boy". Oily little strings of soot would rain down from the sky while burning it and chimney cleaning was a weekly event. Nasty nasty nasty. I think the stoker coal I had was higher quality (and didn't have yellow sulfur deposits all over it like the Indiana coal), but it is all still high volatile coal. Burning it with a stoker is essentially smokeless, and in my opinion is the only way to burn it.

I'm sure there are ways to piece together parts of anthracite underfeed stokers to burn high-volatile bituminous, but it really depends on the particular coal. Some tends to swell and stick together and form "coke trees" but some burns freely. Age of the coal can have a big impact there - fresh coal will tend to coke much more that if it is allowed to age for several months. The way these conversion stokers are intended to work is that the firepot is surrounded by refractory cement up almost level with the top of the pot. There is no ash pan. The fire builds up to 8" to 12" deep in the firebox and once or twice a day the ashes are removed as a "clinker" - melted together in a ring around the firepot. The rest of the loose ash is left behind. This deep firebed serves to promote a hot and clean burn and assure complete combustion of the coal. Anthracite stokers let the ash fall over the edge of the pot into the ashpan. With bituminous coals that tend to coke, this will usually lead to unburned coal in the ashes since the large coke chunks that form aren't allowed to stay in the fire long enough to burn completely. A rotating ring style stoker might work better at keeping the fire "loose". There are some youtube videos of an EFM with rotating ring stoker burning bituminous.

I often wonder how many old stokers and/or boilers are still out there, stuck in a corner of some old basement after being pulled out of service when the house was converted to oil or gas. All through the upper Midwest people heated with coal until the post-war era, and many probably long after that. Notoriously thrifty people, nothing would be just thrown out, but kept around "just in case".

Chris

 
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McGiever
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Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Sat. Jan. 30, 2016 6:34 pm

Scottscoaled wrote:I agree with Mike as to the cast boilers being quite a bit more efficient. They have massive transfer area.
Oh, and I agree with both of you. :) That is not the crust of what I wrote about above. Best to go back and have a re-read of it, gentlemen. ;)

I even agree that if I had a big old honk'in sectional sitting in a basement of a house I was buying, I'd be grinning like a dog under a Gut Wagon ;) ...
But where's the guy who say's oh he77 yeah, where can I get me one of these? I want to go through all that torture like spelled out above. :sick:

 
ldmill
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor with a Motor Stokor
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous Stoker / 1-1/2" X 1/4"
Other Heating: Geothermal Heat Pump

Post by ldmill » Sat. Jan. 30, 2016 7:35 pm

I think boilers which were converted to gas or oil burning years ago would be much better candidates for converting back to burning coal.

I think the OP would do well with this boiler providing it is in good condition with using either grates or a stoker which will burn Bit. coal.
Larry
Last edited by ldmill on Sun. Jan. 31, 2016 1:37 am, edited 4 times in total.


 
ldmill
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat. Aug. 18, 2012 9:21 pm
Location: WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor with a Motor Stokor
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous Stoker / 1-1/2" X 1/4"
Other Heating: Geothermal Heat Pump

Post by ldmill » Sat. Jan. 30, 2016 7:47 pm

Looks like me trying to add a quote from McGiever's post did not work correctly. I apologize for this and will try to learn how to post a quote correctly.
Larry

 
ldmill
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Posts: 25
Joined: Sat. Aug. 18, 2012 9:21 pm
Location: WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor with a Motor Stokor
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous Stoker / 1-1/2" X 1/4"
Other Heating: Geothermal Heat Pump

Post by ldmill » Sun. Jan. 31, 2016 1:12 am

McGiever wrote:[Most of us here are always eager to learn new "twists" on burning ANY type coal in ANY type contraption...but I think dang few of us have ever had the exposure to the likes of what you have there. :)] Quote from previous post.

[Not too many aspiring coal burners are going to go on a hunt around to find an old sectional hand-fire boiler, only after knowing that he has a handle on a good conversion stoker first. Then upon finding one of these old sectional beast, his hope is that it is in fair enough shape to invest in the time and effort to commit to carrying it up out of some basement, load up, haul back to his place, unload it, clean it all up before toting it in and down into his basement so he can then go about the careful reassembly of all these pieces and parts, then commence to getting it all plumbed in so as to finally then finagle into place a scarce to find and appropriately sized conversion stoker unit. Whew!]
Isn't a bad choice when choices are few. ;)
[/quote]

I suppose I am not the normal type but don't know I would ever claim to be anyway. I have never been afraid to tackle a challenge others may not be comfortable with doing when the outcome may benefit my need better than taking an easier way out and then having extra and possibly daily routine steps to do for years to come. I am just different sometimes like this. There are a lot of steps that can make the installation much easier than the above quoted post if one is aspiring enough to think things thru me thinks.

Sometimes it could be easier I would think to take a sectional boiler apart for removal of the much lighter sections one at a time than say removing a complete boiler out of a basement that does not come apart. Of course this is just my opinion though.
Larry
Last edited by ldmill on Sun. Jan. 31, 2016 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

 
ldmill
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat. Aug. 18, 2012 9:21 pm
Location: WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor with a Motor Stokor
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous Stoker / 1-1/2" X 1/4"
Other Heating: Geothermal Heat Pump

Post by ldmill » Sun. Jan. 31, 2016 1:24 am

Might be some interest here if the OP decides he doesn't want to use this boiler.

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