Building a New Era Base Burner

KingCoal wrote:so, this pics shows the intake assembly in the position it will need to occupy to be open under the grates and above the ash pan … will readjust the chain as nec. to have the flap open about 1/16" ( about where it was most of the time on FRANK ) then open it about 1/4" more with the dial and spike the stove temp. to see if it will shut back down

Good test plan!
When I added a thermostat to my Harman, I didn't worry whether the inlet was above the ash pan or not, because the standard spinner inlet was centered more or less on the top edge of the ash pan. As long as there is clearance between the stove side and the ash pan for good air flow, any height should be fine. My major concern was for the intake to be high enough that ashes that missed the pan could build up a bit without falling out the holes.
Retrofit Hitzer Thermostat to Harman

KingCoal wrote:at 450* on the barrel right under the dial box the chain was just taut but not lifting so I opened the dial 2 numbers, that lifted the flap 1/4", fully opened the MPD and the primary air.
that spiked the barrel to 591* under the dial box in under 5 mins. and shut the flap fully.

But then, after it shut the flap, did the temperature stabilize at something lower than 591*???
On my DSM, 2 numbers on the dial makes about 100* difference in surface temperature, somewhat less difference than you are seeing. But if I crank it up by 2 all at once, there is likely to be a temperature overrun that then settles back a bit. So I wonder if, 20 or 30 minutes later, your temperature might be lower than 591*.
Of course, my 450* is not the same as your 450* because I am not measuring anywhere near the control box. I will go move my thermometer to just under the box, and see what happens.

rberq wrote:

KingCoal wrote:so, this pics shows the intake assembly in the position it will need to occupy to be open under the grates and above the ash pan … will readjust the chain as nec. to have the flap open about 1/16" ( about where it was most of the time on FRANK ) then open it about 1/4" more with the dial and spike the stove temp. to see if it will shut back down

Good test plan!
When I added a thermostat to my Harman, I didn't worry whether the inlet was above the ash pan or not, because the standard spinner inlet was centered more or less on the top edge of the ash pan. As long as there is clearance between the stove side and the ash pan for good air flow, any height should be fine. My major concern was for the intake to be high enough that ashes that missed the pan could build up a bit without falling out the holes.
Retrofit Hitzer Thermostat to Harman

fine job on that upgrade.

my main issue is mounting and sealing the flat flanged intake assembly to the curved barrel but, I've already been thru that to some degree with the barrel stove hot plate castings turned into window frames so it's no biggy.

at this point it's a much bigger deal to get and have everything on hand at the outset so I don't have to shut the stove down to mount up the intake. can't have a 3" hole standing open in the ash pit for very long. todays experience says about 5 mins. tops, in the next 5 things are going to get scary.

thanks,
steve

I would drill and mount the flap assembly with sheet metal screws, and then with flap open drill a series of holes of whatever size is convenient or one big hole with hole saw..

You would be in control at all times with no need to rush. When shut down time comes you could use bolts and nuts or whatever. Curvature gap filled with furnace cement.

franco b wrote:I would drill and mount the flap assembly with sheet metal screws, and then with flap open drill a series of holes of whatever size is convenient or one big hole with hole saw..

You would be in control at all times with no need to rush. When shut down time comes you could use bolts and nuts or whatever. Curvature gap filled with furnace cement.

Something I learned years ago while trying to build a carburetor/intake manifold distribution box as part of a turbocharger system before the days of kits. Yeah! I'm THAT old and I still have the early E model Rayjay turbo to prove it.

If you want the incoming air to not be too directional because of momentum, use more smaller holes than one big one. The air gets redirected more evenly by having to pass through smaller holes that break up any turbulence or uneven air distribution though larger openings because of momentum in one direction. Thus making smaller airstreams that once it's past the holes will better distribute under the grates. Has to do with something called "edge effect" for air flow helping tame one big channel of air through one large hole.

And if that doesn't help it's easy to make big holes out of little holes,... as opposed to reversing that.

Paul

Franco, your intake mounting idea is of course just the way it was permanently mounted to the DSM. i'm not sure about the stove cement being applied to 250ish steel. may not stay too long ? this area will never exceed the abilities of heavy felt tape and a couple dabs of silicone.

Paul, I was leaning toward the cheese grater, rows of smaller holes, idea too. I believe that will be the first step, to be evaluated and altered if nec.

thanks,
steve

The only mod left is preheated primary air and for you a NASA lab coat

Top shelf Steve.

scalabro wrote:The only mod left is preheated primary air and for you a NASA lab coat

Top shelf Steve.

thanks Scott but after the bi metal intake control provides the preheated primary there is still fire pot level preheated secondary and one more and it's last because it's the only one I couldn't HOBO together around here and will about double the cost of the whole project.

GW style triangular grates so they can be spun in toward the center from both sides and end the ash going over the sides of a rectangular ash pan under round grates.

after my taxes come back I will be hoping that Wilson still has the parts he quoted me. if not i'll keep on saving and watching.

this yr., since I won't be developing another stove project and there's at least a remote chance that fall this yr. will be as late and mild as the one just past I HOPE to be free to come out for Meet and Greet and sit down with all my forum friends and enjoy a couple relaxing days.

steve

Perhaps then the next step is to do something I've wanted to do.....

Purposely build a "Frankenstove" in other words, take the best features from several high end "parts stoves" modify them to suit, and build the stove that would have been built if the times had allowed it

Like a modified Crawford 40 with prismatic grates, a ridiculously extended barrel, preheated primary & secondary air, double heat, bi-metallic primary, a barometrically controlled & pneumatically actuated MPD, thermal coatings on all surfaces and lots of nickle

scalabro wrote:Perhaps then the next step is to do something I've wanted to do.....

Purposely build a "Frankenstove" in other words, take the best features from several high end "parts stoves" modify them to suit, and build the stove that would have been built if the times had allowed it

Like a modified Crawford 40 with prismatic grates, a ridiculously extended barrel, preheated primary & secondary air, double heat, bi-metallic primary, a barometrically controlled & pneumatically actuated MPD, thermal coatings on all surfaces and lots of nickle

Geez Louise .... Sounds like you've been thinking about this for a while. We ll then ... Let's see it.

scalabro wrote:Perhaps then the next step is to do something I've wanted to do.....

Purposely build a "Frankenstove" in other words, take the best features from several high end "parts stoves" modify them to suit, and build the stove that would have been built if the times had allowed it

Like a modified Crawford 40 with prismatic grates, a ridiculously extended barrel, preheated primary & secondary air, double heat, bi-metallic primary, a barometrically controlled & pneumatically actuated MPD, thermal coatings on all surfaces and lots of nickle

yeah about that. I now have 2 of these Frankenstoves and the one i'm using isn't even finished

the stove I want has been done, it's a big Mica BB / DH. I got a tip on where there is a environmentally controlled building full of them in "clean and polish" to "hook up and run" conditions. all you need is cash.

i've made initial contact and gotten an invitation to visit.

steve

Sorry I can't add to your experiments/modifications Steve, cause you guys are just "way" over my head. But I can honestly say, you must have black rocks flowing through your veins. A total junkie.

rberq wrote:

KingCoal wrote:at 450* on the barrel right under the dial box the chain was just taut but not lifting so I opened the dial 2 numbers, that lifted the flap 1/4", fully opened the MPD and the primary air.
that spiked the barrel to 591* under the dial box in under 5 mins. and shut the flap fully.

But then, after it shut the flap, did the temperature stabilize at something lower than 591*???
On my DSM, 2 numbers on the dial makes about 100* difference in surface temperature, somewhat less difference than you are seeing. But if I crank it up by 2 all at once, there is likely to be a temperature overrun that then settles back a bit. So I wonder if, 20 or 30 minutes later, your temperature might be lower than 591*.
Of course, my 450* is not the same as your 450* because I am not measuring anywhere near the control box. I will go move my thermometer to just under the box, and see what happens.

sorry, I missed this post earlier.

at the time of the the experiment the intake assembly flap was not controlling the air intake. it was hooked up to the chain to provide the intended "counter pull" on the bi metal spring. it was all just hanging on the side of the stove.

i had the chain just snug at 'low" on the dial then moved it to 3. after that I opened the MPD and the primary air on the ash pit door and let it run up.

when the bi metal did it's job and shut the flap back down I counted the experiment a success and shut the MPD and primary back down.

clear as mud ?

steve

rberg, how much diff. did you see in the 2 measuring points ?

KingCoal wrote:

rberq wrote:... after it shut the flap, did the temperature stabilize at something lower than 591*???

at the time of the the experiment the intake assembly flap was not controlling the air intake

Oops! I knew that! Mea culpa!

KingCoal wrote:rberq, how much diff. did you see in the 2 measuring points ?

Less difference than I expected. 100 degrees hotter just below the control box, compared to the top surface of the stove at the left rear.
Hottest point on my stove seems to be just below the flue collar.

KingCoal wrote:rberq, how much diff. did you see in the 2 measuring points ?

Less difference than I expected. 100 degrees hotter just below the control box, compared to the top surface of the stove at the left rear.
Hottest point on my stove seems to be just below the flue collar.[/quote]

so, it seems that these DSM dial boxes and I suspect the Hitzers as well are calibrated for some pretty high heat.

depending on your installation and air movement it might not matter that the hot spot is that far down the back of the stove but it sure would be better if it was more toward the top or front.

of course you could, place sheet metal "drape" on the back of the stove running straight down behind the back legs to the floor that will cut off the area directly behind the stove from that under the stove. this will insure that your circ. tubes tend to draw their air from in front of the stove.

then form and install a "u" shaped shield the full width of the back of the stove and about 3" deep. you'll need to make it 2 piece for easiest installation OR cut a round hole in it to pass your smoke pipe thru.

extend the back shield 10" above the back of the stove and give the top 4" a 30-45* kick toward the front.

instant double heater you'll be surprised by AND it will multiply the convection current in the room increasing the effectiveness of your circ. tubes.

how was it again that you felt you had little to add ?

steve