Riello Burner No No's

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lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Sun. May. 01, 2016 11:50 am

Good Morning fellow board members,

The KAA-4-1 boiler has been running without incident. I have told the wife "WE"
are no longer sifting coals from the ash period.

I am waiting for warmer weather to change out the Hydrostat 3250 plus and
the 4 inch gauge with the replacement units.

Forewarned is fore armed my dear friends in this current tale of woe.

As it is cool and very very wet here at 1,140 feet above mean sea level
and the day is shot I wanted to add this about my boiler controls and the
Model 40 Riello Burner that was removed from my Buderus boiler
and installed in the KAA-4-1.

Sadly for me the plumber made another rookie mistake and cost me a perfectly
good igniter module.

They connected the green ground wire in the BX cable in the center connection(burner alarm connection)
of the burner module base instead of the green ground screw and clamp lug on the cast forced draft fan housing.

After spending a considerable amount of time examining the operating manual and trying to print the troubleshooting chart for my Riello 40 burner I called the Riello folks in Connecticut.

The folks at Riello were very very very helpful and understanding to say the least after I spent a considerable time explaining in detail what happened when they came back and installed the burner head and hooked it up.

The gentleman at the service desk asked if they hooked the ground lead to center connection in the burner module base, and I said can you wait a minute and I will go look? And he said sure, I can wait. So I went to the back room and took off the burner cover and lo and behold the ground was connected to the alarm connection- the center lug with the X surrounded by a circle.

Lucky for me the gentleman at Riello was very familiar with the Keystoker KAA-4-1dual fuel boiler as he was at Riello when Keystoker sent a unit to them to test run their Riello burners in the KAA-4-1.
YAY I said to myself as he knows about my boiler!

After I told him what I found he told me the module was burner up and shorted out and I needed a new one.

The other Riello service technician that I had been detailing my problems to at Riello via e-mail about the burner was right-there was a short that burned out the module and can caused the circuit to trip after the glass fuse was burned out.

SO we found the cause and I have ordered and paid for a new replacement module with shipping cost for $149.00 from Patriot Supply and it should be here on Tuesday or Wednesday. I just have to call Riello back to see If I need to remove the jumper wire that is installed in the new ones as they recommend that it is removed if there is a 24 volt thermostat.

As I have been collecting all the material and paperwork for the installation of my Keystoker KAA-4-1 in a large D ring binder I will be printing out the complete 72 page manual for it as well. Granted its for the newer burners but its has everything in it for my current burner and I will need it to order parts for the two pipe oil feed and return to tank system I want to install for it.

I have to call the Keystoker folks in the morning to check with them about the burner tube to see if they recommend the Riello mounting position which is flush with KAA-4-1 boiler sidewall versus the burner tube being extended 2 inches into the firebox as it is now.

I need to find out if I can move the burner tube inward and gain more room in the area in front of it as it reduces the amount of room that we have to pass through to the pantry storage room.

So anyway we are running headlong into spring with the new KAA-4-1 boiler
1. burning one 40 pound bag of Kimmels rice coal per day +-
2. the pusher plate throw is adjusted at 7 full turns out on the threaded connecting rod
3. the hold fire timer is operating with 10 pins (2 1/2 minutes very 10 minutes)
4. the manually adjusted high limit set at 161 and the low limit set at 140, L6006A is set at 190 degrees dump temperature to single heating loop
a. boiler purge setting is ON
5. oil burner is installed and not used at this time, but it will be used as soon as the weather gets a bit warmer.

Plumbers and electrician still need to be sent to wood shed with banjo music from deliverance in the backround, with Burt Reynolds and Warren Beatty paddling and floating downstream with high water level stream rushing by.

Happy Spring to you my dear friends.
Last edited by lzaharis on Sun. May. 01, 2016 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
waldo lemieux
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Joined: Sun. Sep. 30, 2012 8:20 pm
Location: Ithaca,NY

Post by waldo lemieux » Sun. May. 01, 2016 12:05 pm

Leon,
Why are you changing out the hydrolevel? It was functioning fine last I knew..... If it aint broke don't ef with it ;)

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Sun. May. 01, 2016 12:23 pm

Hello Waldo,

My reasoning is simply that since the boiler has raced to 195 several times since you were here
last with no change in the adjusted operating temperatures with the161 High -140 Low and the manual
thermostat set at 65-68 by me and safely dumped the heat with the L6006A.

I am going to check the condition of the thermcouple well when I remove the gauge to replace it .
It may be coated with slime and clean it too when I change the gauge too as It may be covered in
grime which has happened with these units from what I have read about them.

I do need to change the 4 inch gauge to as it was damaged by the steam event when it the boiler relief valve vented.

Leon


 
waldo lemieux
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Posts: 2270
Joined: Sun. Sep. 30, 2012 8:20 pm
Location: Ithaca,NY

Post by waldo lemieux » Sun. May. 01, 2016 12:38 pm

I really don't know anything about those units but if they have a small volume of water I could see an overshoot like that. I believe that Rob did have an Issue with a dirty well so I would check that first. The boiler shoud go to 225 eaisly before a steam event occurs and now that the dump zone is wired properly it should never get that high again.... just sayin

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. May. 01, 2016 1:37 pm

Leon, maybe you can mail that fried control to your installer with the bill. I know mistakes happen, but that was a silly one and not the first. I installed a Riello at home and the wiring diagram was very clear.

About the aquastat well - yes, I did have to remove mine to clean it, but only because the buildup was causing a false low water condition. The temperature sensitivity was not impacted by the buildup on the well.

If anything I think the electronic aquastats are more responsive than the older capillary tube ones...but not as rugged.

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Mon. May. 02, 2016 10:24 am

Hello Rob,

If I get pissed off enough I will be sending both the unit they provided and mine back with the paid bill requesting a refund to cover the cost of the new unit from Patriot Supply.

If I had not called Keystoker this morning and asked about the burner position in the firebox I would have been even more twisted about this GRRRRRRRR! ( I guess I am pissed off enough now !!!!!!!!!!!!)

SO anyway the Riello Burners steel burner tubes are only to be installed flush with the boiler walls, I would assume the same for their dual fuel furnaces. The same also applies to boiler and furnace sidewalls that have refractory brick from what I read as well.

Their 140K BTU burner heads make a lot of fire and heat.

SO I have more work to do and the boiler has to be moved inward in the near future.

Now I have to stock up on sweat fittings and unions.

They will not be coming back here for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"life is an experience or an experiment" as some have noted.


 
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Rob R.
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Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Mon. May. 02, 2016 10:59 am

Why does the boiler have to be moved?

Yes on the burner tube being flush, otherwise it will be damaged. I had to make a custom plate to mount the burner on my Weil McLain...1.8 gallons per hr makes quite a fireball.

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Mon. May. 02, 2016 5:05 pm

Hello Rob,

Good news, I received the burner module and I have it safely tucked away for the repair.

I called Keystoker this morning before I left town to ask about the burner tube( I think Don Snow thought I was calling with more problems ;^0 but he was happy that the boiler was still running OK. I told him I have not changed the original triple aquastat and gauge yet, but that I was going to do it when the heating season was over.

Don Snow told me that the tube has to be flush with the boiler wall SO that is one more thing I had to verify and I have to correct the installation as they had the end of the fire tube three inches inside the boiler rather than mounted flush with the interior wall of the boiler. SO that would push the burners cover out three more inches when its positioned properly.

I wanted to make more room to allow unhindered access to the pantry where we also store the bagged coal next to the boiler and against the exterior door we never use.

The issue when they dragged the boiler carcass in was whether it was going to be piped directly into the flue with a very short vertical run to the Tee and then to the upper thimble.

The hopper would have stuck out even more than the burner Rob hence why I had them position it the way it is as I can simply drag the hot ash basket right out the side door to let it cool off before I scoop the ash into the wood pellet bags I get from my dads pellet burner. I guess I will have to rethink piling the full coal bags against the door we never use due to the National Fire Code too.

Sliding it back would just about eliminate the horizontal flue pipe run that connects to the 7 to 6 inch reducer that is in the clay thimble but it would reduce the amount of room I have to vacuum to clean the thimble and the breech to the tile lined chimney.

I wanted to get the next size hopper but the issue is room and the lack of it as it would have stuck way out in the path to the door.

I guess I will just sit on things for a while.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. May. 02, 2016 5:38 pm

I have almost 8' of flue pipe at a low angle, your setup should operate fine if you check it for flyash a few times per season. Sometimes fixing one problem creates another...sit tight.

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Tue. May. 03, 2016 4:21 am

Hello Rob,

I will just let it ride and give it a good cleaning and put a drop light in it for the off season months.

Don snow did not sound too happy in general about the new hydrostat triples they have due to
all the failed units.

Its always something. Happy Spring,

Leon

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